|military history notes
||[Mar. 6th, 2009|09:12 pm]
"All The King's Men" scrapbook
7:07:45 PM damned_colonial: so, i desire to think a bit harder about the military side of things|
7:07:54 PM damned_colonial: one thing i don't understand is the high level administration of the army
7:08:03 PM damned_colonial: i just posted to kiss_me_hardy asking if anyone had any book recs
7:08:18 PM commodorified: *nods*
7:08:22 PM commodorified: I shall google about.
7:08:45 PM damned_colonial: i'm also interested in knowing how regiments got sent overseas and how they got brought back
7:08:53 PM damned_colonial: logistically speaking
7:08:57 PM damned_colonial: and what happened when they got home
7:10:54 PM commodorified: this is not useful for this purpose, but it is useful:
7:10:54 PM commodorified: http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/organization/c_nickname.html
7:12:13 PM damned_colonial: sigh. i googled for "british army headquarters whitehall" and got "British Army - Company Profile on LinkedIn"
7:12:24 PM commodorified: goodness.
7:12:33 PM commodorified: well, the foreign legion has a website...
7:12:42 PM commodorified: I'm starting on wikipedia with War Office
7:12:51 PM commodorified: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Office
7:14:30 PM commodorified: The management of the War Office was initially headed by the curiously-named Secretary at War, whose role had originated under King Charles II of England as the secretary to the Commander-in-Chief of the British Army. The first War Office Secretary at War is usually said to have been William Blathwayt, though he had two predecessors in the post. It was, however, a fairly minor government post which dealt with the minutiae of administration rather than grand strategy. Issues of strategic policy during wartime were managed by the Northern and Southern Departments (the predecessors of today's Foreign Office and Home Office).
From 1704 to 1855, the post of Secretary was filled by a minister of the second rank, although he occasionally sat in the Cabinet. Many of the responsibilities were transferred to the Secretary of State for War following the creation of that more senior post in 1794. The post of Secretary at War was merged with that of the Secretary of State for War in 1855 and was abolished altogether in 1863. The Secretary of State for War was also responsible, between 1801 and 1854, for Britain's colonies (when the post was known as the Secretary of State for War and Colonies). This responsibility ceased with the establishment of the Colonial Office.
7:14:32 PM commodorified: Hmmm
7:14:47 PM commodorified: I
7:14:57 PM damned_colonial: excellent
7:14:58 PM commodorified: I'll take Northern and Southern Dept's/
7:14:59 PM damned_colonial: i'm reading too
7:15:51 PM damned_colonial: i'll take secretary of state for war
7:16:40 PM commodorified: The Southern Department was a former department of the government of England and later the United Kingdom. It had a variety of responsibilities, including domestic and Irish policy, colonial policy and foreign affairs concerning southern European powers such as France, Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Italy and the Ottoman Empire. It was administered by the Secretary of State for the Southern Department.
The Southern Department's opposite number within government was the Northern Department, responsible for government dealings in northern Europe.
7:16:46 PM commodorified: So, Southern Department it is. Sort of.
7:18:12 PM damned_colonial: the secretary at war in 1800 is william windham
7:18:26 PM commodorified: OK, I'm stuck here so I shall go find him
7:19:16 PM damned_colonial: http://books.google.com/books?q=william+windham&btnG=Search+Books may be of use
7:19:27 PM commodorified: I just found his diary :-)
7:19:30 PM damned_colonial: DIARIES http://books.google.com/books?id=8mdnAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA17&dq=william+windham+rifles&ei=uOexSd3HIZL-lQTancBx
7:19:31 PM damned_colonial: hee
7:19:35 PM commodorified: am downloading it now
7:20:06 PM damned_colonial: oh! the secretary of state for war was henry dundas! also head of the board of control
7:20:13 PM commodorified: goodness
7:20:17 PM damned_colonial: so as i understand it, he's the top of the heap in terms of govt responsibility for the military
7:20:20 PM damned_colonial: windham reports to him
7:20:24 PM damned_colonial: southern dept reports to windham
7:20:45 PM damned_colonial: stewart, and hence E, wrote to windham
7:20:48 PM commodorified: okay. so, Sec'y State for war, then Northern And Southern, then Whitehall as such
7:20:49 PM damned_colonial: i think
7:20:52 PM commodorified: OK.
7:20:58 PM damned_colonial: what, whitehall as such?
7:21:09 PM damned_colonial: no no no
7:21:22 PM commodorified: lemme go back here
7:21:36 PM damned_colonial: dundas is a cabinet member and a high level government person responsible for war in general
7:21:49 PM damned_colonial: windham is administratively in charge of the whole british army
7:21:57 PM commodorified: Ah, okay, yes.
7:21:59 PM damned_colonial: northern and southern are two depts reporting to him
7:22:05 PM commodorified: sorry, brain thingy
7:22:19 PM damned_colonial: when you talk about "whitehall" or "horse guards" you're probably talking about windham and his staff.
7:22:34 PM damned_colonial: i mean, in the context of "E had been stuck in meetings at horse guards" or whatever
7:23:30 PM commodorified: yeah I was conflating him and dundas for a sec there
7:24:34 PM damned_colonial: the osprey book on the 95th agrees that stewart submitted the proposal to the secretary at war, aka windham
7:24:51 PM damned_colonial: quoting by hand as i can't c&p
7:25:10 PM damned_colonial: the duke of york agreed and accepted the proposal (who's the DofY right now?)
7:25:24 PM commodorified: good question, lemme check
7:25:32 PM commodorified: 'it was so dark; there were so many'
7:25:33 PM damned_colonial: lord cornwallis suggested amendments to the proposal (who's he?)
7:25:45 PM commodorified: oph he's important, hang on
7:26:12 PM damned_colonial: command of the ERC was given to col. coote manningham of the 41st, a leading proponent of the idea
7:26:15 PM damned_colonial: we should read up on him too
7:26:25 PM commodorified: He's all over redcoats, dammit
7:26:28 PM commodorified: huh
7:26:29 PM commodorified: http://www.driftwaycollection.com/imagery/1800_print_detail.html
7:26:29 PM damned_colonial: stewart was his deputy
7:26:41 PM damned_colonial: no no
7:26:52 PM damned_colonial: that's a historical print of an earlier DoY
7:27:01 PM commodorified: oh good
7:27:01 PM commodorified: In 1801, Frederick, Duke of York, the second son of George III and Commander-in-Chief of the British Army for most of the Great War, founded the Royal Military Asylum (2) by royal charter.
7:27:04 PM commodorified: right, then
7:27:05 PM damned_colonial: the style of clothing is ca. 1620 as is the tennis raquet
7:27:15 PM damned_colonial: frederick!
7:27:18 PM damned_colonial: prinny's brother
7:27:22 PM commodorified: "Good egg, I call that really ingenious"
7:27:25 PM damned_colonial: ok so there was wackiness there let me remember
7:27:27 PM commodorified: his own bad self
7:27:34 PM damned_colonial: clarence was another of prinny's brothers
7:27:42 PM damned_colonial: and clarence had a particular fondness for the navy i think
7:27:47 PM damned_colonial: he served with them? maybe?
7:27:49 PM commodorified: he did indeed
7:28:38 PM commodorified: score...
7:28:39 PM commodorified: http://books.google.ca/books?id=5V0BAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA319&ots=FzMjGfsyGf&dq=cornwallis%201800&pg=PA318&output=text
7:28:59 PM commodorified: Marquis Cornwall1s To Major-general Ross.
DEAR ROSS, Phoenix Park, Dec. 25, 1800.
As the wind is pretty fair this morning, I expect that Whitworth will arrive in the course of the day, when I will get him to prepare statements and explanations respecting the incorporation business. The basis is to consider the officers of the old battalion only, previous to the addition of the second battalion in 1794, as entitled to retire on full-pay, or be placed second on the Line, which includes the field officers (the eldest captain having got his first commission in 1794). Then to reduce eight companies, taking the youngest officers from each rank, who will be placed on half- pay, and some of the second lieutenants, if good for anything, may be placed at the bottom of our corps. We shall then by degrees manage the remaining twelve companies, and find means for providing here for two or three of the captains who have merit.i
You will see Elliot, who is now on his road to London ; he has been much in my confidence, and can give you the best account of our affairs.
I have been very attentive to Cooke, and have endeavoured to put Vn'm as much at his ease as possible with me, so that I hope we shall go on tolerably well together. He has a narrow-minded jealousy, which is inexcusable in so clever a fellow, and being no man of details himself, he will not suffer those who are under him, and are very capable, to manage it for him. The consequence is that the ordinary business is always behindhand, and in great confusion, and everybody who has anything to do at the Castle is discontented. Although connected with the old system and set of men, I do not think he is adverse to the Catholic question, or disinclined to the line of conduct which I pursue in governing the country. On a point on which the Chancellor and myself differed lately (though without quarrelling), when I refused to sign a pardon which he had written himself and sent to me, for some magistrates who were summoned before the Court of King's Bench, for a contempt of Court, Cooke, when he heard of it, was entirely on my side, and I believe gave his opinion very freely to the Chancellor.
I am troubled more frequently than I used to be with those swellings in my feet and ancles, which, although not gout, at least not ordinary gout, are not very dissimilar from it; my spirits in general are not good, and I feel that I am growing old and good for nothing.
7:29:47 PM commodorified: Oh that's why I remember Cornwallis. Surrendered at Yorktown
7:29:54 PM damned_colonial: duke, marquis, earl, right?
7:30:06 PM commodorified: Marquess, son of an Earl
7:30:06 PM damned_colonial: so there are our senior ranking nobs: york and cornwallis
7:30:14 PM damned_colonial: no i mean precedence
7:30:22 PM commodorified: So he can fuck SB around all he likes, if he likes.
7:30:26 PM commodorified: oh, yes
7:30:29 PM commodorified: I think, gimme a sec
7:31:00 PM damned_colonial: ok i think i have an idea
7:31:09 PM commodorified: Marquesses have precedence
7:31:20 PM commodorified: The King
The Prince of Wales
King's Brother's or Sister's Sons
Prince of Saxe Coburg Saalfeld
Archbishop of Canterbury, Lord Primate of all England
Lord High Chancellor, or Lord Keeper
Archbishop of York, Primate of England
Lord High Treasurer
Lord President of the Privy Council
Lord Privy Seal
Lord High Constable
Lord High Admiral
Lord Steward of his Majesty's Household
Lord Chamberlain of his Majesty's Household
Dukes, according to their Patents
Dukes' eldest Sons
Daughters of Dukes
Earls, according to their Patents
7:31:30 PM commodorified: http://www.chinet.com/~laura/html/titles07.html
7:31:46 PM damned_colonial: yes. duke, marquis, earl.
7:31:56 PM commodorified: yeah
7:32:02 PM damned_colonial: i'm reading "frederica" at the moment and one of her brothers describes alverstoke as a "second best" nobleman
7:32:04 PM commodorified: god, sorry, I am a bit braine dead
7:32:55 PM damned_colonial: ok here's my thought
7:33:00 PM commodorified: ok
7:33:18 PM damned_colonial: manningham has actual experience of rifle tactics, in the west indies, according to osprey
7:33:42 PM damned_colonial: let's assume for a moment that's an excellent soldier but has little influence
7:34:07 PM commodorified: let us do assume this
7:34:17 PM damned_colonial: so when E's back from zurich asking people "what do you think of rifles?" he probably talks to CW
7:34:20 PM damned_colonial: CM
7:34:22 PM damned_colonial: manningham
7:34:37 PM damned_colonial: and manningham says something like "i've been telling them for years it's a good idea, but do they listen to me?"
7:34:40 PM damned_colonial: so E does it
7:34:52 PM commodorified: (they don't call. they don't write...)
7:34:54 PM commodorified: *nods*
7:35:01 PM damned_colonial: then the top folks say "great idea! we're going for it, and we'll put you in charge"
7:35:06 PM damned_colonial: and e says, "well, actually..."
7:36:11 PM damned_colonial: and convinces them that M has the chops for it, and that E would much rather learn from him
7:36:26 PM commodorified: ooh i likes it
7:36:38 PM commodorified: I mean, really, what does he need promotion for at this time
7:36:51 PM damned_colonial: his sense of consequence
7:36:56 PM damned_colonial: his *family's* sense of, i should say
7:36:58 PM commodorified: uh-huh
7:37:02 PM commodorified: well, there is that.
7:37:26 PM damned_colonial: i can't get away from the fact that E is being pretty bloody difficult about taht
7:37:31 PM damned_colonial: just how whiggish is he?
7:37:43 PM commodorified: excessively not, I think.
7:38:02 PM damned_colonial: well, you could've fooled me
7:38:05 PM commodorified: I think he is just sort of semi consciously pissy about the whole situation of Julian dying etc
7:38:14 PM commodorified: and therefore trying to Drive Mummy Mad
7:38:19 PM damned_colonial: windham's a whig
7:38:20 PM commodorified: without exactly realising it
7:38:44 PM commodorified: well, ok, in my HEAD he's a bloody fisted Tory and future Wellington supporter.
7:38:54 PM commodorified: But I dunno as I ever exactly said this, I think not
7:39:24 PM damned_colonial: what he said over dinner in F&L seemed pretty moderate
7:39:35 PM commodorified: true that
7:39:39 PM commodorified: Wives of the younger Sons of Knights Grand Crosses of the Bath
Wives of the younger Sons of Knights Bachelors
Wives of Gentlemen entitled to bear arms
Daughters of Esquires entitled to bear Arms, who are Gentlewomen by birth
Daughters of Gentlemen entitled to bear Arms, who are Gentlewomen by birth
Wives of Clergymen, Barristers at Law, Officers in the Navy and Army
Wives of Citizens
Wives of Burgesses
7:39:48 PM commodorified: ... dear GOD, how did ANYONE ever get any supper?
7:40:23 PM damned_colonial: you assume that those people would be able to eg. understand the social etiquette of friending someone on facebook
7:40:31 PM commodorified: point
7:40:32 PM damned_colonial: lacking web2.0, they had much more room in their brains
7:40:57 PM damned_colonial: i feel the need to post that to LJ now.
7:41:10 PM commodorified: indeed
7:43:25 PM damned_colonial: ok, so, i think part of the WT story is E shaking out his political views a bit
7:43:44 PM damned_colonial: because you can't set up a rifle corps without that
7:44:08 PM damned_colonial: have we talked much about the class implications? or have i been saying that to other people and not to you?
7:44:12 PM commodorified: hmm, yeah
7:44:18 PM commodorified: other people
7:44:21 PM commodorified: say on...
7:44:23 PM damned_colonial: want me to unpack? ok.
7:45:00 PM damned_colonial: part of the resistance to riflemen, which is implicit in the entire Sharpe story, quite apart from RS having risen from the ranks, is that the rifle corps undermined the class hierarchy of the british army
7:45:31 PM damned_colonial: traditionally you had a Simmerson on a horse, telling a bunch of poor uneducated brutes to stand there and fire and/or get shot at.
7:45:51 PM commodorified: right
7:45:58 PM damned_colonial: Terry pratchett also has some strong opinions on this whole system (Jingo and Monstrous Regiment are best)
7:46:03 PM commodorified: OH yeah
7:46:12 PM damned_colonial: so the thing about riflemen is that they need to have a capacity for independent thought
7:46:27 PM damned_colonial: the whole skirmish/sharpshooter tactic thing doesn't work if there's a simmerson in a red coat sitting on a horse saying "fire!"
7:46:38 PM damned_colonial: the green uniforms are even a part of this: early camoflage
7:46:42 PM damned_colonial: almost dishonorable
7:46:56 PM commodorified: *nods*
7:47:06 PM damned_colonial: remember E in F&L: "I have little time for an enemy who daren't show his face."
7:47:35 PM commodorified: Yeah
7:47:52 PM damned_colonial: so, how does he get from there to being fully convinced of the rifle thing?
7:47:57 PM damned_colonial: i think zurich is stage 1
7:48:06 PM damned_colonial: talking to people in england in late 99 is stage 2
7:48:13 PM commodorified: *nods*
7:48:22 PM damned_colonial: and stage 3 is thinking of his dying/dead highwayman guy as a person.
7:48:51 PM damned_colonial: actually
7:48:53 PM damned_colonial: that's too trite
7:48:59 PM damned_colonial: but i think it feeds into how he feels
7:49:11 PM commodorified: hmm, yeah
7:49:16 PM damned_colonial: i suspect his deserter/highwayman may bring him a step back
7:49:40 PM damned_colonial: because that guy pretty much *is* an uneducated, dishonorable brute
7:49:48 PM damned_colonial: and exactly the kind who is fine when stood in a line and shouted at
7:49:58 PM damned_colonial: but who falls apart when that structure isn't in place
7:51:05 PM commodorified: and we've sort of decided not to involve sharpe
7:51:08 PM damned_colonial: on the OTHER other hand, he's already involved with sharpe
7:51:13 PM damned_colonial: he's not in the story
7:51:16 PM damned_colonial: but he is in the background
7:51:19 PM commodorified: true
7:51:21 PM damned_colonial: so he's the counter-example
7:51:36 PM damned_colonial: scum, but intelligent
7:52:23 PM damned_colonial: so the timing of WT is that the whole thing is pretty much in the bag
7:52:33 PM damned_colonial: they're just ironing out the last wrinkles administratively
7:52:39 PM damned_colonial: and E's got nothing to do for a week or two
7:52:45 PM damned_colonial: so i suspect he might be fretting
7:53:41 PM damned_colonial: oh and *technically* manningham is senior to him
7:54:01 PM commodorified: yeah
7:54:03 PM damned_colonial: so he could say to the people at whitehall, look, if you have any questions, ask HIM.
7:54:07 PM commodorified: hang on, must swop comps
7:54:08 PM damned_colonial: seriously, he knows his shit.
7:54:12 PM commodorified: *nods*
8:00:33 PM commodorified: allo again
8:00:55 PM damned_colonial: good background on the baker rifle's selection here: http://england.prm.ox.ac.uk/englishness-baker-rifle.html
8:01:32 PM commodorified: ooooo
8:03:00 PM damned_colonial: hmmm, windham is working on the mutiny bill in jan 1800
8:03:27 PM commodorified: is he, by god?
8:03:35 PM commodorified: pecunium is being oppressed by yarn
8:03:59 PM damned_colonial: i forget what the mutiny bill of 1800 was actually about but i think it was one of those odd ones that dragged in other issues
8:05:31 PM damned_colonial: oh good lord http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/search/mutiny%20bill?decade=1800s
8:06:11 PM commodorified: I was just there! :-)
8:06:34 PM damned_colonial: nothing from 1800 alas
8:12:56 PM damned_colonial: ok, so, i am becoming happier with my understanding of the administration and how all this shook out
8:13:10 PM commodorified: ok, good.
8:16:04 PM damned_colonial: from his letters, windham appears to be quite the astute politician
8:16:42 PM damned_colonial: i'm thinking particularly of his letter of dec 30 1799 on page 419 of his diary
8:18:30 PM damned_colonial: ok, let's figure out the DoY and Cornwallis's politics
8:19:26 PM commodorified: okay
8:19:48 PM damned_colonial: bzzzt
8:19:50 PM damned_colonial: sec.
8:21:47 PM damned_colonial: weird. wikipedia doesn't have cornwallis.
8:22:05 PM commodorified: hmmmm
8:22:17 PM damned_colonial: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquess_Cornwallis
8:22:34 PM damned_colonial: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Cornwallis,_1st_Marquess_Cornwallis
8:22:36 PM damned_colonial: there he is.
8:22:39 PM damned_colonial: stupid googles.
8:23:08 PM commodorified: pecunium claims he was tolerablt Whiggish and in fact was sympathetic to the Yanks
8:23:32 PM damned_colonial: yes
8:23:47 PM damned_colonial: he was a protege of rockingham's (whig PM)
8:23:57 PM commodorified: excellent
8:24:13 PM damned_colonial: OH
8:24:16 PM damned_colonial: he was in india with E
8:24:23 PM damned_colonial: and involved in the third mysore war
8:24:48 PM damned_colonial: which is "major macperson's ass" era
8:25:01 PM commodorified: OOOH
8:25:24 PM damned_colonial: ok, so cornwallis had no official govt role
8:25:35 PM damned_colonial: but was presumably pretty buddy-like with windham
8:26:37 PM commodorified: I am mildly amused that I am talking military history with you and knitting with pecunium :-)
8:26:49 PM commodorified: btw
8:27:15 PM damned_colonial: hee
8:27:22 PM commodorified: and, this begins to come together
8:27:57 PM commodorified: he keeps adding stitches out of nowhere.
8:28:03 PM commodorified: and blames me.
8:28:06 PM damned_colonial: hee
8:28:09 PM damned_colonial: ok, so
8:28:16 PM damned_colonial: mostly we seem to have whigs in favour of the rifle corps
8:28:28 PM damned_colonial: i wonder what horatio thinks of it
8:28:30 PM damned_colonial: and archie
8:28:34 PM commodorified: and Tories agin?
8:28:46 PM damned_colonial: i don't see any tories in teh picture at all, particularly
8:28:55 PM commodorified: hmm, there is that
8:29:00 PM damned_colonial: but the broad argument about class and hierarchy in the army would seem to divide along those lines
8:29:01 PM commodorified: who's PM again, Pitt?
8:29:13 PM damned_colonial: yes, i think so
8:29:22 PM commodorified: archie might be toryish
8:30:03 PM damned_colonial: wait, not quite
8:30:17 PM damned_colonial: oh no sorry, misread
8:30:18 PM damned_colonial: yes, pitt
8:30:22 PM damned_colonial: archie's a tory for sure
8:30:29 PM damned_colonial: he's a mini jack aubrey
8:30:37 PM commodorified: true :-)
8:31:10 PM damned_colonial: let's say that E's fairly centrist and apolitical
8:31:25 PM damned_colonial: but can be moved in either direction when he believes in a certain thing
8:32:14 PM commodorified: that works.
8:33:32 PM damned_colonial: and in this case he's being moved whigwards
8:34:15 PM damned_colonial: and he's feeling a little awkward about that
8:34:46 PM damned_colonial: it's an interesting point for him and horatio to agree on
8:36:06 PM damned_colonial: i bet sir henry, the local magistrate, is a tory through and through
8:36:21 PM commodorified: Oh yeah
8:37:18 PM damned_colonial: and this visiting army guy who comes to dinner at sir henry's is probably much like E, centrist and apolitical
8:37:44 PM damned_colonial: might make for a good argument over the pr0t
8:38:10 PM commodorified: which would conveniently tuck a fair chunk of exposition in there neatly
8:38:31 PM damned_colonial: you don't think i introduce OCs for the hell of it do you? OCs are HARD.
8:39:51 PM commodorified: it's TRUE
8:40:39 PM damned_colonial: so imagine around the dinner table: sir henry, random military OC, E, H, and A
8:40:47 PM damned_colonial: that's a pretty broad range of opinion
8:41:04 PM damned_colonial: if we made the random military OC be older... hrm, no.
8:41:08 PM damned_colonial: hmm
8:41:16 PM damned_colonial: it would be ideal if he were a veteran of the american war
8:41:30 PM commodorified: but he could have been a wee ensign
8:41:31 PM damned_colonial: he's have to be 40ish
8:41:40 PM damned_colonial: right
8:41:43 PM commodorified: yeah
8:41:47 PM damned_colonial: i was assuming he was young and perky
8:41:51 PM damned_colonial: but we can make him older
8:42:09 PM damned_colonial: we could even put him in charge of the local militia or something
8:42:13 PM damned_colonial: did they have militia properly yet?
8:42:27 PM commodorified: they did I think, half a sec
8:42:54 PM commodorified: you know how google makes suggestions?
8:43:03 PM commodorified: wtf militant platypus?
8:43:13 PM damned_colonial: The militia was widely embodied at various times during the French and Napoleonic Wars. It served at several vulnerable locations, and was particularly stationed on the South Coast
8:43:39 PM commodorified: http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/DevonMisc/MilitiaLists/NorthDevonMilitia1800.html
8:43:56 PM damned_colonial: HELL YEAH
8:43:58 PM damned_colonial: got dorset?
8:45:31 PM commodorified: http://www.aigs.org.au/dorsetff6.htm
8:45:54 PM damned_colonial: excellent!
8:46:11 PM damned_colonial: ok, this guy was a wee ensign in the american war
8:46:12 PM damned_colonial: came home
8:46:22 PM damned_colonial: and when war broke out with france, got involved in the local militia
8:46:28 PM damned_colonial: i should add there "dropped out"
8:46:41 PM damned_colonial: Somerset & Dorset Absconders. 1801-1858.
Deserters listed in the “Hue & Cry”.
8:46:42 PM damned_colonial: WAAH
8:47:30 PM commodorified: damn them!
8:48:16 PM damned_colonial: well anyway
8:48:46 PM damned_colonial: this guy can be a captain in the local militia or so
8:48:55 PM damned_colonial: bit older than E. gentleman.
8:49:02 PM commodorified: works.
8:49:32 PM damned_colonial: i feel like i have got all the research i can stand for now
8:50:29 PM damned_colonial: huh. Colquhoun Grant was a dorset man.
8:50:59 PM commodorified: was he, now...
8:51:05 PM commodorified: this is well timed as soon I must sleep
8:51:13 PM damned_colonial: no, actually, he wasn't
8:51:14 PM commodorified: I have got all virtupus about sleep of late :-)
8:51:16 PM damned_colonial: stupid dorset
8:51:30 PM damned_colonial: they *claim* he was, but actually, he was scottish. he was in the dorset and devon regt tho.
8:53:34 PM damned_colonial: you know who's a local-ish (west country) military man who was a captain in 1800?
8:53:44 PM commodorified: ooo?
8:53:49 PM damned_colonial: also working on a new scheme that he has to convince the army of
8:54:01 PM damned_colonial: he came up with his invention in 1784 and it wasn't accepted til 1803
8:54:29 PM commodorified: baker?
8:54:35 PM damned_colonial: no; he was a tradesman.
8:54:44 PM damned_colonial: apart from which his invention was accepted in early 1800
8:54:58 PM commodorified: right, ok, assume I iz dum
8:55:09 PM damned_colonial: i like playing this guessing game
8:55:12 PM damned_colonial: you will get it soon
8:55:16 PM damned_colonial: he was in the royal artillery
8:55:33 PM damned_colonial: and his invention was a kind of shell filled with musket balls and other small bits of metal, lit by a fuse
8:56:06 PM damned_colonial: it was intended to explode in mid air, and it was a devastating anti-personnel device
8:56:09 PM damned_colonial: it was named after him
8:56:31 PM damned_colonial: and the word is commonplace today, though you mostly hear it in eg. ww2 contexts
8:56:36 PM damned_colonial: (or i do anyway)
8:56:56 PM commodorified: ah, mr shrapnel?
8:57:07 PM damned_colonial: yes indeed. henry shrapnel.
8:57:24 PM commodorified: hmmmmmm
8:57:30 PM damned_colonial: i don't really want to bring him to dinner
8:58:05 PM damned_colonial: oh god
8:58:09 PM damned_colonial: Congreve was inspired to work on iron-cased gunpowder rockets for use by the British military, by their use against British troops in India by Tipu Sultan during the Anglo-Mysore Wars. He first demonstrated solid fuel rockets at the Royal Arsenal in 1805.
8:58:25 PM damned_colonial: MILITARY INCEST ABOUNDS.
8:59:08 PM commodorified: YES
8:59:55 PM damned_colonial: militia captain: "well, good luck with that rifle corps idea... don't suppose you're interested in artillery at all? there's a chap i know, friend of my father's, wiltshire man by the name of shrapnel. he's been trying to convince them for years to use some kind of exploding shell."
9:00:39 PM damned_colonial: E: "oh god, really? they had them in india. bloody awful things; never knew where they'd end up."
9:01:47 PM commodorified: hee yeah
9:02:24 PM damned_colonial: During the Fourth Anglo-Mysore War, rockets were again used on several occasions. One of these involved Colonel Arthur Wellesley,
9:02:49 PM commodorified: MORE INCEST
9:02:54 PM damned_colonial: which incidentally is when sharpe hooked up with wellington
9:03:46 PM damned_colonial: These Indian rocket experiences, including Munro's book of 1789 , eventually led to the Royal Arsenal beginning a military rocket R&D program in 1801. Several rocket cases were collected and returned to Britain for analysis. The development was chiefly the work of Col. (later Sir) William Congreve, who was told that "the British at Seringapatam had suffered more from the rockets than from the shells or any other weapon used by the enemy".
9:04:20 PM commodorified: this is all complicating itself nicely
9:04:23 PM damned_colonial: as usual.
9:06:53 PM damned_colonial: we should probably post this log to atkm_notebook
9:07:00 PM commodorified: Yeah, I think so.
9:07:05 PM commodorified: porn. this is meant to be porn
9:07:09 PM damned_colonial: ha ha FAIL
9:07:21 PM commodorified: SO MUCH FAIL